Worlds Beyond The Veil

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Produced by Leon Macey and Lee du-Caine
Engineered by Leon Macey
Mixed and mastered by Leon Macey and Lee du-Caine at Dreaming Studios V1

Drums Recorded at Alphasound Studios, May 2003
Studio Engineer Lee du-Caine
Studio Technician Liam Kavanagh
Guitars and Bass recorded at Dreaming Studios May-September 2003
Vocals recorded at Alphasound Studios July-September 2003
Leads and Themes recorded at parts unknown 2001-2003

Synths on T1,T5 intro, T7 intro, T10 outro, T13 Outro by Leon Macey. No synths elsewhere on this album.

All music / arrangements by L Macey / R Coss
All lyrics by R Coss / L Macey

Artwork by Eddie and Paul from Detrimentum
Mithras logo rework by Paul Wilkinson
Layout by Allan Swan @ 7 Day Design (www.7dd.co.uk)
Band photo by Ester Segarra (ester@e-seggarra.com)

Recording Line-Up:
Oratory / Bass - Rayner Coss
Guitars / Drums / Synths - Leon Macey

(Click Track Titles for Lyrics)
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Leon: I guess what needs to be said first off is that I based a lot of the imagery in the music and lyrics on this record around concepts from my own dreams, and came quite close in some instances, which might explain the crazy vibe! Just to make it clear, the album has two main protagonists, 'The Great Councillor' – a character in the form of a man (though not revealed he is not quite human) with what you could term great magical and psychic abilities. On the other side you have 'The Entity', a malevolent (at least from mankinds perspective) inter-dimensional alien being that manifests itself in many ways. We made it so all the tracks flow as a story, but the perspective changes quite a bit and points of view move about. I guess it can be read like a fragmented and incomplete history.

Portal To The...

Rayner: This instrumental track continues from where 'What Lies Beyond' (the final track from Forever Advancing…… Legions) left off - in the opening section the same sounds appear as at the end of 'What Lies Beyond'.
Leon: Yeah, the strange sounding guitar part which end the album 'Forever Advancing...... Legions' start 'Worlds Beyond The Veil', musically linking the two records together.
R: The track represents the 'Entity' crawling through space, time and dimensions towards the earth, drawn both by the calling of unanswered prayers of the masses and also the Great Councillor's dreams and visions - they reveal to him that a great doom is coming.
L: Musically speaking, this track is very complex, lots of different sounding sections. It took a very long time to come together and went through a lot of changes but I'm extremely pleased with it. The guitar theme at 2.20 and the crescendo it builds to are awesome, it really epitomises the record generally. Most of the weirder sounds are as always, guitar based! The themes and sections in this track almost represent a condensed version of the album as a whole, with multiple themes of light and dark - like going through multiple heavens and hells almost.
The horrible sounding section with the hammering sound and the fluttering noises was inspired directly from a dream I had where there was a vast canyon split by a huge chasm separating it into two halves, a divide if you will. This unexplainably strange and alien creature was floating in the air far in the distance on the other side, and slowly but inexorably started weaving closer, much to my horror. This is also referenced in the lyrics to the next (title) track, with the “angelic enigmas” verse.

Worlds Beyond The Veil

L: I always saw this track as needing to be an extremely bold yet varied statement, musically and lyrically. Like a lot of this record, getting the lyrics right took me a very long time, although musically it came together quite quickly. 'Worlds...' sharply illustrates the difference between this record and our debut record 'Legions...', from the very first beat really. 'Worlds...' features such strange sounding arrangements and walls of blasting sound and odd tones, and the even more crazed yet natural lead work...
I changed my drumming style on this record compared to 'Legions...', it's more unusual but also more technical. Obviously this track has the much talked about 300bpm kick section too, hehe. Another notable thing is the first use of the vast lead sound after the shredding lead near the end (3.20 onward), this is the first time on the record that this type of section appears (although we had similar sections on 'Legions...'), and it's become characteristic of my musical work since.
R: Conceptually the track 'Worlds...' brings the realisation that there are worlds beyond our own, worlds more evil and sinister and that something is breaking down the barriers between worlds to get to ours. The music represents the alarm and panic which would be involved with this realisation of this impending doom.

Bequeath Thy Visions

R: This song properly introduces the “Great Councillor” character in the lyrics who now moves on to tell his followers what he has seen and learned in his dreams. The song begins with him being woken from a dream by an alarmed follower who saw he was having a terrible nightmare. It also reveals that he has a psychic link of sorts with the coming Entity and can actually feel it coming towards Earth. Towards the end of the track the Councillor reveals what should be done to escape the coming destruction. The Councillor and his followers then decide to take the next step of evolution in the spiritual worlds - to pass to another world or plane beyond, something which is detailed more in later tracks.
L: Musically, this track actually took a long time to become as I intended, the feel never quite came together until we recorded it on the record, with all the extra guitar work and vocal patterns. The main lead section (2.03-2.32) was actually inspired by a strange place I've been to a few times, a deep quarry right next to the sea in Devon which is a pretty eerie place. When I was walking there I started humming the melody from the lead and that eventually grew into the song. When we recorded the vocals to this song in the studio, on playback there was a really strange resonance in the bass region on certain notes, and it made the track sound really different and cool. Sadly you needed to be in that particular room to get the effect!

The Caller And The Listener

R: The many religions of the world are calling out for a saviour and for their prayers to be answered, but they don’t realise that they are attracting something that cares not for their prayers just for the destruction of their world. In the final section of the song the Entity almost announces its intended destruction of the human race.
L: I always pondered the idea of radio waves going out into space, and wondered where they'd end up, what ears they could eventually fall on, and this track is based around that idea. Lyrically it's quite scathing about organised religion, in the sense of the abasement before a “godhead” and the meekness inherent therein. Musically it's extremely fast, brutal and almost a throwback to the style of 'Legions...' but much more alien sounding. It's extremely hard to play accurately too - the ending section where all hell breaks loose is quite baffling. There's an amusing bit where I wrongly start a blast on the ride, then quickly move to the hihat, that was a lucky save!

Break The Worlds' Divide

R: Another song based around a dream scene, the Councillor sees what he has prophesised begin, in fact the text in the booklet with the track reveals parts of the concept to 'Behind The Shadows Lie Madness' and the future for the world we wrote about. It also touches on the idea that many people will perish due partly to the fact they believe a saviour will come and that they considered the Great Councillor and his followers foolish and decided not to band with them.
L: Musically, this one tails off from the end of 'Caller...' and then changes into something quite different. I envisaged the start sequences as something out of a sci-fi film, like the intro or something. I recorded the recognisable guitar melody that follows in a single take and always intended to redo it more “accurately” for the record, but all my attempts sounded dull and lifeless in comparison so I simply left it as it is, and I reckon it's better for it.

Lords And Masters

L: This track starts to show the more melancholic elements in the melodies and arrangements coming to the forefront on the record. I always saw 'Worlds...' as a journey from a dark, foreboding chaotic place, to a serene yet somewhat mournful place, and this song marks the change from the earlier dark, obscure sounding tracks to the more blazing and searching sounding ones that come after. I'm really happy with the progressive yet extreme drumming and the really choppy guitars and complex riffs that characterise this track, it was really cool to record and sounds great live.
R: This track shows the idea that the human race will always focus on challenging each other and not really look much beyond their own existence. Always fighting for power and control, yet if they looked a bit further they could achieve so much more. The ending sections are a sad lament almost, of the Councillor realising what has become of mankind and how many are doomed to die.

Psyrens

L: This track is my favourite track on the record, for a lot of reasons. I went about writing the music on guitar in a really ritualistic manner, which I already detailed pretty extensively in past interviews. The guitar leads just came out spontaneously when I demoed the track, and I saved the original takes and used them on the record proper, basing the timing of the album recording around them.
I actually wrote the lyrics before the concept to 'Worlds...' had fully come together, and thus they hold a meaning to me totally outside the concept of the album, even though they fit really neatly into it and the overall vibe. Musically and lyrically this track most closely represents the 'thing' that I've always tried to represent/glorify with my music, that sublime feeling of joy coupled with melancholy or however you want to categorise it - quasi religious. The track is based around / echoes a whole host of dreams I had around this time in my life. Although it's not particularly about them, I always thought of the Greek Sirens of legend as a base for the track and as a metaphor in the title 'Psyrens'. There's even female voices singing at the start in amongst the waves. I don't want to be anymore succinct about it, the lyrics speak for themselves.
R: If you look at it in terms of fitting into the overarcing story, this track represents the scene whereby many of the 'followers' have passed to the 'other' realm and are calling the Councillor to join them. He remained on earth to try to save as many people as he can knowing that the link he has to the Entity may attract it to the other realm before all can pass through and everyone is saved.
L: Everything on 'Psyrens' just came together perfectly when recording. We were quite worried about the vocal arrangements and the vocals having the right feel for the lyrics, and really just winged it in the studio, but the vocals just add even more to the track. We were actually most worried about people not “getting” this song as it's quite different to anything else we've done, and we loved it, but it's probably the most popular track from the record, if not our career to date!

Voices In The Void

R: Voices In The Void shows the link between the Entity and the Councillor, and the link between the Councillor and his followers now safe in the other realm. At the end he finally starts to make his final preparations to join them.
L: I always visually imagined the character forlornly walking amongst empty temples and buildings on a really vast windswept hillside, alone in a deserted landscape. Musically it's quite varied and has a lot of changes and sections. The clean guitar section in the bridge and the following riff are about the only musical phrases I've used from the writing period when we did a band pre Mithras (a thrash band called Reprisal). The lead at the end was also recorded before the album recording session and then added in, for the same reason as before, the vibe!! I've got about three recorded versions of that outro lead, all with different nuances and characters. Also worth mentioning is the way the drums and cymbal work starts to break down near the end and groove out, it's cool.

The Sands Of Time

L: I wanted to do a purely instrumental track with a lot more “groove and rhythm”, and I also wanted to try out some more sparse sounding parts, where the leads take centre stage even more. So that's what I did with the first three leads, which grow off a central musical idea or theme. They were notoriously hard to get right in the studio, one of them taking 100 odd takes... The approach I took with the leads in this track and the juxtaposition between lead and rhythm became part of the “shtick” for the following record 'Shadows...', particularly the titular track where I repeat this formula in the second half of the song.

Search The Endless Planes

L: This track is blended into the previous one, and utilises the guitar technique that characterises this entire record, the tapping sections and melodies which resolve and grow and harmonise with each other. Most of this track is guitar based, but at the end, synths and samples take over and lead out. Extremely melancholic and otherworldly, meditative. The reason the song is called “Search The Endless Planes” and not “Plains” is because it's referring to the “Astral Plane” not the “Great Plains”!
R: In terms of the story, the Councillor drifts to the gateway to the other world, revelling in the beauty of the spiritual planes feeling safe from the evils that now seep across the planet.

They Came And You Were Silent

R: Man's realisation; that the saviour they have been calling for will never come and they are doomed to be eradicated. Some lyrical sections represent the Entity which almost mocks the peoples idea of a saviour, and starts to exterminate them.
L: This song has some of the fastest sections on the record, 280bpm, 16ths in the blasts. It's interesting musically, with the self harmonising delayed guitars making up the backbone of the track, an approach which we used more on 'Shadows...'. It's also unusual in that it ends on that tapped out riff, which harmonises with itself to create a huge wall of sound. I tried to do some different things with the drumbeats in this one too. The vocals are really low pitched on this one compared to the others.. It's quite a forlorn and searching sounding track, but then the ending makes things somewhat ambiguous.

Transcendence

R: The Councillor begins to transcend to a purely spiritual form while despairing at the masses who suffer a terrible fate when the Entity finally nears.
L: I didn't write this song to specifically represent the Councillor actually transcending but the song is written from a singular perspective and can easily be interpreted that way; which is why the album works as single songs and also together as a whole while conveying multiple perspectives. Musically it's really rapid fire, with no repetition, each section different from the last. The lead work at the end of the track is some of my best, and there's some real experimentation with crazy effects settings.

Beyond The Eyes Of Man

L: We really played on the idea of the Pied Piper story with this one and used it as a metaphor for the story base for the song, although it's not exactly the same. We wanted something semi-ambiguous to end the album so it didn't reach a obvious finalised “conclusion” although the explosion right at the end of the instrumental section signifies the final arrival of the Entity. The lyrics to the song can be read like an old fashioned tale or almost as a reversed allegory of what happens in the last days of Earth, hinting metaphorically at what's happening without saying so implicitly.
R: A very sinister track! The song is almost a prophecy or tale of old that tells of the horror of a hidden creature that followed men back to their homeland and then revealed itself, but only to the children. It then entices them away to the mountain for its own devious plans. The way this track ends the album like a forgotten legend at the end of the album is great.
L: Musically it's unlike all the other tracks on the record, as it's mid-tempo without much blasting. It's obviously more on the epic side, with some quite grandiose moments and melodies. It's pretty complex and involved too, and is also cool to play live. The instrumental section at the end was just the result of guitar experimentation, and signifies chaos, then a final moment of lucidity and melancholy right before the end when the hole to the other dimension opens.

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Portal To The...
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Words: Coss / Music: Macey

Drifting, I come to a gateway.
It opens. Singing voices overwhelm me, a choir of vocal beauty.
But yet beyond this divine eternity something sinister lurks.
It is not as it was...
Wait! Great eyes stare down on these beings, and onto me!
Two large eyes eternally watching! Staring! Obliviously they persist.
Something dominates the chorus of voices, a language of alien tongue.
They hear it not!
But yet it hears them, and is drawn to them! This must cease!
I call, call to them from afar, then I fall, fall into the seas of mother earth.
I clamour for the surface in a sea of mannequins, the shores ablaze.
And in the heavens this watcher fixes upon me, as I feel my senses awaken...
Dragging me into the depths...

Worlds Beyond The Veil
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Lyrics: Macey/Coss / Music: Macey

That which lies beyond
Open your eyes
Awaken your senses
This I show you - now you shall see
And it will change your world forever

See to beyond
Past perceptions and physical senses

We shall fall into the
Worlds beyond the veil

Entranced by the turning vortex
Its views of splendour entice me
But yet there are things
Which I do not know or have ever seen
A portal opens
I fall far far down
Amongst the ones
Who call for me

Behold! This being gliding with form,
Yet no form
Transfixed yet horrified by this
Angelic enigma
Run! It senses us, it feels us
It's coming, can it cross the Worlds' divide?
Will we escape it?

Wait, there is more than this
Yes, there is terror beyond known terror
But all we have done must not be lost
We shall step into the light

Bequeath Thy Visions
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Lyrics: Coss / Music: Macey/Coss

Awaken!
Your body rests yet you wander
Awaken!
What is it that makes you writhe?
Great Councillor
Unleash upon me your fear
You hesitate
Great terror hides behind your eyes
Bestow
Teach to me your learnings
Great one
Doubt grows heavy upon your brow

Brothers I've seen
I've seen the thing of greater terror
Fear, fear the words I am to speak
My dreams -
Contaminated by this horror
Relentless, these visions I wish to bequeath
Voices, I hear their voices
Its calls flood into my soul
Unleashing this greater terror

It seeks, beyond my eyes
Yet I see not the seeker
Its screams bringing me to my knees
The terror tears into my soul
I hear the singing, the beacon
Beckoning this beast
It listens
It hears their calls

It's time!
My brothers we must realize
Evolve, we must now evolve
It's near, it comes
We need to reach the greater planes
Oh my brothers it seeks us
This thing that comes ever closer to this earth

The Caller And The Listener
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Lyrics: Macey/Coss / Music: Macey

The lowly
Piteous, weak but by nature abhorrent
The fallen
Throwbacks to a distant age
They clamour
United in aspiration
Grovelling for their redeemer

As prophesised
They turned their voices
Towards the heavens
Using the arts
They called out into the void
"Oh lord enlighten our souls"
In nescience
You know not what
Your exhaltations have unleashed

It hears
The ovation falls
On open ears
Yet you know not
What your exhaltations have unleashed
It hears and it doth come

You know not
what your exhaltations have unleashed
It comes
Sing the hossannas and it comes
Sing hossanas and the great host comes

You called for me
And you shall have me
Through your eyes
I shall pierce your souls with fear
And then you shall run

Break The Worlds' Divide
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Words: Coss / Music: Macey

Pulled to the surface, I see the sky is ablaze.
The portal opens!
The heavenly facade is broken. The gods of humanity fall from their pedestals.
With little strength they await their destruction alongside mortal men.
What are these things?
I've seen them, beyond past perception and physical senses.
It comes, the moon shifts and the heavens burn.
We must now evolve, for it has broken the worlds' divide!!!

Lords And Masters
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Lyrics: Coss / Music: Macey

I see you the many
United you stand against me
Me the divine creator
You dare challenge my might
How can the flock
Challenge me the shepherd
Risk all just to be rid of me
Thy lord, thy ruler

Lord of the condemmned
Show the might of your minions
I challenge thee oh lord divine
Die with gracious dignity

I see you - the lord
The tyrant that rules thy nobles
Unity of my thousands
Against your treacherous plots
How can your lowly few
Withstand our vast numbers
All shall battle for me
The leader, the master

Fiendish traitor - I shall dispatch
Your taunts weaken me not
You shall be crushed in glorious combat
And I'll retake all that's mine

Oh feeble lords and masters
I heed not your rule
Alone I stand against all
In the greater knowledge
Dear lords and masters
You know little of me
My knowledge grows vast of you
As does your ignorance of me

Psyrens
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Lyrics / Music: Macey

They call
Call to me from afar
I sense them / I feel them / I know them
But I know them not
They exist
But not in this reality
Calling me to return

Realms I've travelled
I will see you again
In timelessness I know you
And we are of one

Separated I wait
For the time
Of return
Unity

I feel their call
I know I'll have to leave
Soon I'll heed their call
Reminding me of what is / will be / was
On stellar waves I've travelled
And will so again
If I have to wait an eternity
I will

Voices In The Void
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Lyrics: Coss / Music: Macey

Yes I retreat I've seen
That which you shall bestow
Upon humanity
But you shall never be victorious
For I evolve
And strive beyond
The influence of your existence

Be calm my bretheren
Your voices shall never go unnoticed
How could I forget
The ones who stood by my word
Fear not
For I am coming
I endure
My last breaths

I feel the entities
So familiar
Ah my brothers
It's time
I shall leave
Take me to the masses
Our separation has been too long
The distant cries
How I've longed for their embrace

Children can you sense it
The voyagers from beyond this realm
Man called to them
And they have come
Fear not
For they can harm you no longer
We shall embrace the sanctity
Of these distant planes

The Sands Of Time (instrumental)
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Music: Macey

Search The Endless Planes (instrumental)
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Words: Coss / Music: Macey

My body rests, yet I wander without comprehension of the vast eternity of this everlasting revolution. As the known and unknown combine, I drift without destination and see the vast colours of the galaxies, knowing only that the few appreciate the sanctity of these distant planes!

They Came And You Were Silent
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Lyrics: Coss / Music: Macey

Come to me
Children of mother earth
Worshippers of the gods
I have for you
Your redemption

Run the gods are not with us now
Run for our powers are useless
Call for a saviour
Realize the voices in the void

What are these things
Will not our god save us
We called and they came
And you are forever silent
Why?

Run your god is not with you now
Run your powers are useless
Call for a saviour
Realize the voices in the void

Transcendence
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Lyrics / Music: Macey

The call has come to return
To leave this mortal coil
Return to the eternal
Become as one again
To remove back to sprirt
I cast off these chains so binding
I ascend through separation
I aspire to transcend

The ultimate of man's fears
That which no-one "knows"
The key to the eternal
Passage off this earth
My spirit calls
For it knows the way
You "know" nothing
Blind you follow an idol

You are as nothing
For now I am the all

Beyond The Eyes Of Man
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Lyrics: Coss / Music: Macey/Coss

I embrace great victory!
Ride spread the word
Take to my people the great news
We shall return
To our splendid Capital
We shall return
And bask in the glorious greetings

Bask you shall
Bask you shall
Fools
Senseless fools

Hark! Across the horizon - I see it
Our homes - great capital
Come forth and ride
March on and return
Our great victories
Will make us heroes
Our great battles shall make us nobles

What am I?
That follows
That which is
Unseen

We return
To our homes
Oh great city
We return

I follow
Come my lambs
I call to you
You shall follow

You feast your armies
- I'll take your sons

Lead me to your precious babes
I come for them
And yet you know nothing
Of all that I am
And return with that
Which shall take
All that it desires
All that it desires

Oh! Father
Can you see it... not?
It calls me
Beckons me to follow
I feel a will overpowering me
Save me - I must go
The elders see it not

Oh! Children follow
My will captures your souls
I take you and you shall follow
Watch as they follow
See not that which leads
Those fools they know not of me
But you my children
Shall learn all

To the mountain
To the mountain
Come infant disciples
I shall grow eternally strong
You hear my song
It enchants your souls
You are in my power
I shall take you away

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The below are notes transcribed from Leon and Rayner talking about the album 'Forever Advancing.... Legions' and it's genesis:

THE LABEL / SIGNING
THE SITUATION / SONGS
THE RECORDING SESSION
THE ARTWORK
THE PHOTOSHOOTS
THE RELEASE
SIGNING TO CANDLELIGHT

The Label / Signing
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Leon: Howdy again, now it's the turn of 'Worlds...', boy have we got some stuff to say about this one!!
Rayner: Yeah! On this album we signed to Golden Lake again. We resigned to them on a single album basis again.
L: We actually got offers from a few labels for this album, but for many reasons the deals they offered weren't working out for us in one way or another. Some of the labels wanted us to hold off recording, but we were anxious to record as soon as possible as we'd been writing this album for ages and didn't want a long delay like with 'Legions...'
R: Golden Lake made us a good offer for this album and gave us an advance to help pay for the recording.
L: Yeah so we just basically signed with them right before we started recording in May 2003 I think it was. We were pretty happy with how things had gone with 'Legions...' with Golden Lake and didn't want to take a chance with a bigger label who didn't feel right or whatever.
R: And they'd put a considerable effort into pushing 'Legions...'
L: Fraser the label head actually came down to stay and saw us rehearse quite a few times for this record.
R: He was pretty supportive to be honest.
L: Yeah he was bang into the music we were coming up with. I think Golden Lake originally got interested due to the weirder bits on the albums, and 'Worlds...' was obviously a lot weirder than 'Legions...' so it was right up his street.
R: We were the only two who were going to play on the album and didn't have any other involved / committed members so only the two of us signed this time. We weren't really concerned as we'd proved that we could do it as the two of us on 'Legions...', so it wasn't a new thing.

The Situation / Songs
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L: Yeah as Rayner just said this album was conceived with just the two of us in the band.
R: It was better for it anyway, cos unlike 'Legions...' where we spent years playing the same songs with different members, we really concentrated on writing the songs and getting them tight, then just recording them. This time it wasn't the case that we were sick of the songs, we were bang into them really.
L: Yeah the novelty of the material hadn't worn off at all, we were mega enthusiastic about it. As we mentioned material for this album started coming together before 'Legions...' was even recorded, I think I had most of 'Psyrens', 'Voices In The Void', 'Beyond The Eyes Of Man', 'The Caller And The Listener' and 'Bequeath Thy Visions'.
Leon opens his old notebook with all the notes from this era in it.
R: 'Bequeath...' and 'Voices' were almost like two parts of the same song lyrically
L: They were titled "The Prophet" parts 1 and 2 I think
R: “The Prophecy" pt1/2
L: Ah yes
R: Wow, in 'Voices...' there's a massive lyrical section we never used, it ended up condensed into one line.
L: Yeah the original lyrics were too long for that musical section, so I had to condense them.
R: On this album we had a very set idea about what we wanted from it story wise before even starting. Looking at these notes you can see the order of the album is already pretty much together at the start, when we hadn't even written some songs.
L: It's really weird thinking back to BEFORE the album proper was actually conceived. Thinking about each individual song in it's embryonic stage evokes totally different feelings to how the album actually does now when I listen to it, I mean, there's totally different visuals there.
R: Hah! There's notes for "Album 3" here.
L: Let's not jump ahead of ourselves!
R: There's a picture of a very angry Pikachu stuck to the back of your book.
L: Haha!
L: Yeah so after 'Legions...' we'd totally cleared up all the old songs we had kicking around from back the band formed, all this material was written intentionally round an idea / aesthetic.
R: It wasn't so much a case of the massive choice of songs we had on 'Legions...'; we just used the most current songs.
L: Yes, we didn't re-record any of the old Imperator stuff in the end, which could have gone on there.
L: So by the time we started really getting into writing 'Worlds...' Ben (guitarist) had departed the band again.
R: Yeah.
L: I've got to say though, it was a uniquely weird atmosphere when we rehearsed back then, in that period anyway (early 2002). We used to play till really late at night and talk about metaphysical stuff, spirituality, dreaming etc. We'd have really really long conversations about it. I remember arguing with Ben about it a lot, we just seemed to argue for the sake of it a lot of the time, maybe to make it more interesting.
R: There was a lot more atmosphere, and we were driven more towards the goal than with 'Legions...' as we knew this time we were writing for an album rather than it just suddenly falling together like 'Legions...' did. We spent all the time practicing getting really good.
L: Yeah I remember the endless drum practice, ugh.
R: Which is something we don't have to do to the same intensity now, we practice in shorter bursts, more intensely.
L: Back then we used to play for 4-5 hours non stop almost, maybe a short 15 mins break in the middle.
R: And as we were setting up and packing up we'd be talking about spirituality and stuff.
L: Yeah the vibe of the record totally permeated it all back then, everything we did almost. It was like a total immersion experience compared to the other albums.
R: It's almost as if with 'Shadows...' it was really under control, but with 'Worlds..' it was as if we didn't have control of it.
L: It was like a beast that just wanted to be what it was almost, it just came together in a strange way.
R: I don't think we'd ever be able to replicate that sort of environment or even try to, as it'd come across as really forced wouldn't it.
L: Yeah I reckon so. It was definitely a special time, it's really hard to explain without going really weird and digressing too much. I guess artistically I found I was able to express myself with an original voice here.
R: It's cool to have the album as an almost "spiritual photo" of where we were back then.
L: It's like a record of all the thoughts and ideas from that time, so it carries much more meaning than is obvious from it on face value.
R: It really embodies the whole package, the environment we worked in, etc.
L: Really the thing with 'Worlds...' was that we started to take a Zen-like approach to it.
R: Even the problems we had, just made it more like that.
L: We just knew/felt exactly what we were trying to do with this album, like it was predestined and waiting to be made almost, as silly as that sounds. Ben kind of dissapeared from the band around this time, I don't remember why exactly, but we started rehearsing as a two piece along to the guitar tracks I'd recorded, and then it started coming together and the vibe started setting in.
R: Do you remember the time when we were all sitting in the rehearsal room and that really weird feeling shifted round everybody, then we got up and we played and it was really good.
L: Conversely I remember when we all used to see things in the corner of the room..
R: And in the door, in the airlock thing, a face in that fucking window!
L: It was really creepy that was. Sometimes the feeling got so bad we'd just play and play almost fighting against it, then sometimes we'd just go outside till it passed on. Anyway this type of thing stopped eventually.
L: Anyway, the strange almost sad vibe came back then and all was well! This album was always melancholic sounding, really searching and evocative. I really tried to represent a lot of stuff from my dreams in musical form, and feel I achieved it to a point.
R: Lyrics! We had the difference on this album of it being a story, and set ideas about what we wanted each song to be about, we knew what the topic was going to be, rather than being open ended like 'Legions...'. It was great to listen to the music and write about what it made you think of / or feel, which is pretty much exactly what we did. For the first time we actually wrote lyrics together.
L: Yeah and music to a point too, the way we worked on the album with us writing the drums and bass along to the guitars really added a lot to the album.
L: The songs represent a selection of different ideas for me, not necessarily exactly what the lyrics embody, but along the same lines, for example we've got songs that make me think of creepy places, that were actually written in creepy places, that are about similar subjects, so it overlaps and gives a double meaning.
L: I guess the style “change” is worth talking about. People talk about the huge change in style between 'Legions...' and 'Worlds...' and I guess it's a lot to do with the more sprawling instrumental moments and experimental guitar work, which was just stuff I was toying with that seemed to have a life of it's own and became more and more part of the material and songs. It was like I'd found my own identifiable guitar style and it had finally came together with all the strange sounds...
L: On the drums, the fact we'd really really sped up the footwork compared to 'Legions...' while slowing the hands a bit but having a much higher average tempo was a real challenge, I suppose I'd come up with a more original drumming style for this record. Same as with guitar, I was finding my own voice, whereas on 'Legions...' I was testing the water. We really went for more miltary beats on 'Worlds...', those hammering snare patterns over waves of double kick. I can actually remember Justin and me sitting at work one night and me humming riffs and him suggesting patterns for beats, he came up with the snare pattern on the chorus in 'Lords And Masters' da da da da da da dadada etc..

R: We got Lee in the band around this time, just as a live guitarist.
L: Yeah he joined, but just a live member. He was really interested in what we were doing and gave quite a bit of input on the writing and solos etc. We then got Ben back to play live leads as we wanted to do gigs to push the band, pre release.
R: We actually put some effort into sorting it out after most of the writing was done. They joined when we'd more or less finished writing, then we did one gig, then we concentrated on recording, then they came back after when we did two final gigs after the release.
L: Ben guitared for us at the London show in March 2003, which was really good. As I'd basically taught him how to play guitar / he'd learnt from our recordings and learning to play our stuff, he was really good at replicating my style at this point.
R: Yeah it was pretty good.
L: So the gig in London was excellent considering it was Lee's first ever show.
R: Yeah that was “the cloaks” one wasn't it?
L: That idea turned out to be a bit impractical so we dropped it later on.
R: Armour's what we need!
L: After the London show Lee was a bit distraught as he hadn't been able to hear anything throughout the gig, however as we all had a lot more experience of shows we were all happy as larry, whereas he felt a bit disappointed until we told him that was a normal show! I drummed at this show and all I really remember was the bass drumming shaking the stage.
R: Didn't Chris Maudling from Sagoth give us a pasting at arm wrestling afterwards?
L; He sure did, but that was when we were both extremely tired and had had many matches.
R: The bass player, Bill Bailey or whatever his name is, he saw us arm wrestling and he was the one who said we should try Chris cos he does it all the time, he clearly did.
L: We'll have to get him in a rematch someday!
R: The joke was on them in the end as they had to give us a lift home.
L: Me and you stayed, got pissed and ended up stranded at 1am, oops! Thankfully Ben took all the gear home much earlier.
R: Bal Sagoth dropped us off at Watford gap, then our old drummer Justin had to come out and collect us at 3am.
L: Haha. But it didn't end there, when we got back to the studio it turned out Ben had dumped all our gear in the communal area, so we had to pack it all away.
R: When we opened our cupboard at the next practice, a cymbal stand immediately fell on my head out of the cupboard. I turned to you and said "that's what happens when two pissheads put the stuff away". Bal Sagoth were really cool guys anyway.

The Recording Session
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L: The plan this time was to record some of the album in the same place we did last time (Alphasound) which was where we rehearsed the entire album, but also to record some of it at my home studio.
R: We recorded it all on computer this time didn't we, and took the computer up to the studio to record the drums and stuff.
L: Yeah I shelled out about £1200 and built a bespoke audio computer for the recording, which was a lot of money back then in the olden days! I'm still using the same soundcards now!
R: Didn't I record the bass in your front room basically?
L: Yeah! Front room / studio, lol.
R: It went straight into the computer didn't it?
L: Yeah we recorded the bass direct and made the sound later on the computer. I also recorded all the guitars at my leisure which without any pressure took fucking ages to be blunt.
R: It meant we could spend time making it all really good without it costing us recording time in a "proper" studio where you'd pay by the hour. All we did in the main studio was drums and vocals.
L: And we only did vocals there because your voice is so fucking loud, otherwise we'd have done it at my house!
L: We reasoned that because 'Legions...' had taken about three days to setup and record drums, that five days would be adequate this time. How wrong we were :(
R: The vocals suffered from the same scenario. Didn't we do it in three evening sessions?
L: It was longer than that, five or six. For some reason it was excruciatingly hard getting the right timbre and atmosphere to the vocal, loads of work.
R: We just ended up being systematic and doing a couple of songs, then stopping. We were losing our patience as it was so slow compared to 'Legions...'
L: The first vocals we did were for "They Came And You Were Silent', ironically we weren't happy with them at the time, but they're more like the vocals on 'Shadows...' are, to a point. One track I was especially worried about, as we hadn't actually rehearsed it with the vocals on it properly was 'Psyrens'.
R: We kind of finished some songs off in the studio.
L: There's a bit in 'Psyrens' were you sound exactly like Michael Dorn (Worf from Star Trek). I was especially pleased about that, it's excellent.
R: We decided on loads of different types of voices, in turn that made it much harder to get them down.
L: I really don't get it when people say the vocals are monotonous or monotone on this album, the vocals are excellent and really expressive, perhaps that's what people don't like.
R: Compared to most other dm bands the vocals are pretty ott in the expression stakes.
L: So really the vocals were just a bit of a slog compared to our expectation. Let's talk about drums now, and possibly blastbeats.
R: Ok that covers the drums! Lol.
L; Lee du Caine came and recorded the drums for this album. As I said we had 5 days in the studio this time just for drums, and Liam (our old Rhythm guitarist) set everything up and miked the kit then left us to it basically. Almost as soon as we started actually recording, we realised it was going to be very very difficult getting the drums down. We had constant triggering problems from the DM5, exacerbated by the fact we were miking the drums as well as triggering them to tape, and thus hadn't muted the drums to death which would have made them trigger well but sound shit. So basically what I was playing sounded really good on the kit, but just wasn't triggering properly.
R: I was only there in the evenings again, and you did most of it in the day.
L: We went up there at about midday and stayed until 2am every day, ugh. We did some punching in on this album, which was something we couldn't do at all on 'Legions...', which at least gave us some remit to make it a bit easier. I actually had to punch in a bass drum part here and there too.
R: Well the drumming's pretty intense, so fuck you buddy!
L: Haha. The main 'problem' was the constant double kick and complicated drum rolls confounded by the triggering issues, there's so much margin for error.
R: It certainly gave us a taste of what we'd be up against for album three so we could prepare a lot better for what we knew would be problems.
L: Like drumming in the studio, for some reason it's always much harder to drum when it's being recorded, and we just weren't used to it.
R: Like me forgetting to start singing when it's recording, shit like that.
L: There's some amusing drum footage and studio footage of us fucking about to make light of the situation, as it was maddening. I had actually had to tape the headphones to my head with insulating tape as they kept falling off, but the tape kept pulling my hair out so then Lee produced this tiny uber camp pink belt from somewhere, and I used that to secure the headphones.
R: Wasn't it a girls' belt? There's footage of that too.
L: I'm not sure I remember who it belonged to...
R: But Lee had it!
L: Considering it only just went round my head I reckon it was a midget's belt. Once we finally finished recording, at about 10pm on the 5th night, I released my pent up frustration by going out and beating all comers at arm wrestling. I was just extremely fired up from all the Lucozade and protein shakes I'd been drinking!
R: On the guitars, didn't we use a lot of original takes, so not to lose the atmosphere from them. We tried to redo some of them and it just wasn't the same.
L: We actually had to base entire tempo tracks round the off time solos just to get them in, some of those were crazy, Yeah we recorded this album to a metronome too.
R: Which was another first. That's why 'Legions...' is like a runaway train! We were a lot more fussy about the tempos this time. We worked out exactly the right tempo for each song to make them work best.
L: Sometimes we went through many changes which was extremely annoying, having to rerecord the entire demo guitars each time.
L: I actually recorded a load of demos for this album way back in 2001, on an old 8-track machine and as Rayner says we kept these takes. They're mostly solos and we couldn't ever replicate them again, not to this day really. However they added so much to the album it was imperative that they were on there. I had to really fiddle with the sound of them to make them fit my newer guitar sound, but it's pretty seamless now. When completing the solos I hadn't already recorded, it was another agony, we knew specifically the atmosphere they had to create. I'm really not kidding when I say that I spent four hours and over 100 takes recording the third solo in 'The Sands Of Time', it's got so many crazy harmonics hit with the wrist and back of the hand and stuff.
R: We mixed the album at your home studio in the end. We agonised over it to be honest.
L: I've completely blocked it out of my memory hehe. I remember Lee came up to mix it with me.
R: He helped you didn't he.
L: Yeah he helped me on this album, and on 'Shadows...' I helped him!
R: I was living in a different city by this point, which I why I was less involved.
L: Also it had dragged on, we started recording the drums in May and didn't actually finish mixing the album until September. Golden Lake actually encouraged us to finish it as fast as possible.
R: I remember you phoning me and saying "I've posted it now so that's it fucking finished, I'm going to get some sleep" I think you said. Then you said I needed to come round and hear it one final time in case you'd missed something, haha!
L: The sound on the album is pretty massive and not direct.
R: Which is what I think people don't like. There's always been an element that this album confuses people with everything, music, lyrics, production. Some people have just found it too hard to fathom out.
L: It's just nuts, from the..
R: From the off, pretty much!
L: Hell yeah.
R: The reason 'Worlds...' sounds how it does it because we DIDNT have a preconception as to what we wanted the production to be as such. We didn't sit down an over analyse what it SHOULD be, we just made it what it was. We knew it needed to be massive with that crazy edge.
L: It sounds like there's millions of things going on at once, but it's only two different guitar tracks, one bass, vocals, drums and maybe a lead over the top, it's not like there's millions of overdubs like people think, or wildly differing guitar tracks purporting to be a single solo.
R: We've achieved that by playing complementary things, or not, the bass can be playing something totally different to the guitar, and one guitar different to the other which just layers it up.

The Artwork
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L: Originally a friend of mine was supposed to be doing some artwork for the cover. But, it never seemed to get past the rough sketch stage.
R: It got to the point where we'd finished the album and didn't have any artwork and were like "oh shit!". Paul and Eddie from Detrimentum sorted it out in the end.
L: At really short notice. They basically edited a lot of pics from the Hubble telescope which is what made up the layout, obviously there was a lot of photoshop work involved. Later on down the line another band contacted us who'd actually had a really similar cover to us, they'd just used the basic photo as the cover to their release. Anyway as all NASA images are copyright free and in the public domain it was just tough really but we were still irritated that someone else had already used it before us.
R: Eddie and Paul did a great job considering the short amount of time they had to get it together, and they were enthusiastic about it.
L: The layout was handled by Allan Swan, who did a cool job and spent ages getting it right and making something suitable to go with the background images.
R: Lee proof read it, so if there's any mistakes it's Lee's fault!
L: It turned out really good in the end, quite fitting for the music etc.

The Photoshoots
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R: As I recall we did the photoshoot in London when we did the legendary Terrorizer interview, and it was the hottest day ever!
L: It was 35 degrees or something insane, in UK terms anyway.
R: I just remember standing there with sweat pissing down my head thinking "can we go to the pub now!"
L: We did the actual shoot at the British Museum, the bit with the ceiling behind us is the foyer inside it.
R: On the right hand side inside.
L: Ester took the pics, they came out really good and they ran in the feature in Terrorizer. You really can't tell how fucking hot it was from just looking at the pics, fortunately.

The Release
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L: Golden Lake wanted to get the record release as soon as possible, so we were under a bit of pressure to get it all together by September, which we just about managed. The release was put back a bit as I remember it.
R: They ran a fair few adverts for the release didn't they. They did push it quite a lot considering, and it was in all the major magazines.
L: Yeah we got reviewed everywhere..
R: Yeah even in Terrorizer lol!
L: Haha! I'll get to that. But we got nearly universally great reviews everywhere, with only a few people who didn't understand it or whatever. We were actually surprised that people understood it, with songs like 'Psyrens' which we were convinced were too odd for people to get really being embraced, which was cool.
R: To be fair, lots of people were really into 'Dreaming In Splendour' from 'Legions...' and we thought that was the one song people wouldn't get either.
L: So we were really pleased to get such a warm reception to the record, it was incredible. Golden Lake actually sold out of their first pressing almost immediately.
R: It was fantastic, like strudels!
L: Not quite that fantastic, but you get the picture. Let's talk about the Terrorizer business, should be funny/tedious. So what happened was Stuart Banks who was a Terrorizer writer had reviewed our 'Bequeath Thy Visions' demo a while back and given it 10/10, which was amazing. Anyway he wanted to review the album and had asked us to send it to him directly when it was finished, so we actually sent him an advance copy before the record was even totally mastered etc.
R: So we sent it to him early and he was pencilled in to review it. We knew he liked it but not how much.
L: Yeah we got quite a shock when we saw the actual review in print, to say the least! This wasn't until the November issue, and we'd actually had a feature on the back of the demo review and whatnot in the issue before, that's the one that Karl Sanders got all het up about.
R: The 'Hollywood metal' bit?
L: Yeah that bit, he took it badly but we sorted out in the end I think. We really weren't having a dig at him anyway, as if anyone 'knows' what the music of the ancient Egyptians was.
R: So the review was good to say the least, it got a lot of attention.
L: While most of the attention was positive, there was a bit of bitchiness from other bands and some other losers.
R: Who still go about it now don't they?
L: Some are still posting about it on forums then crying into their cornflakes and living at home with their mums. People assumed that because I started going with (and later married) Lisa who was publishing Terrorizer at the time, that she'd basically reviewed us herself and given it a really high score because we were together. This wasn't true at all, and I'm sure Stuart Banks would attest to this. He'd actually given Aborym a similarly good review. Anyway some anonymous gobshites started talking on a site called Sinisterweb. Sinisterweb decided to close down rather than delete the extremely offensive posts towards Lisa and Mithras, which was a shame as a lot of people used the site to talk about metal. It also made it seem like we'd asked him to close the site down..
R: Which wasn't the case.
L: I actually heard years later that the guy in question had wanted to wash his hands of the site for ages, and this was the perfect excuse, which is a pretty spineless thing to do.
R: Well Stuart Banks clearly liked the album, at the end of the day the review was just his opinion of the album, like all reviews are the reviewers' opinion. If you don't like it then ignore it.
L: Obviously it was rather ott in the positive direction, but was just essentially an extension of his review of the demo. Anyway the fact that we got many many other great reviews with full marks really proves a point. We actually had a review that was more ott if I remember rightly!
R: We actually did some gigs to support the release this time. We'd have liked to do more but we had line-up problems.
L: We did two shows supporting Cancer, one in Coventry and one in London
R: At the Electrowerkz.
L: Aye, and the one in Coventry was at the General Wolfe. The Coventry gig was filmed, but sadly the turnout wasn't great.
R: The metal scene isn't well supported in Coventry at all, so the turnout wasn't a surprise. They're so cliquey in Coventry it's ridiculous.
L: Christophe did do a good job with the show, but it's a shame there wasn't more promotion.
R: He handed flyers out in a wine bar to "all the pretty girls" who he claimed would turn up. They didn't.
L: Hahaha! We're thinking of releasing the footage as it's really good quality.
R: The gigs went well to be honest.
L: The sound in London was fucking awful because the promoter didn't hire a soundman, and we didn't find out until we got there. Lee and me had to adjust the sound ourselves during the previous band, Detrimentum, hoping that we'd have a reasonable sound when we came on. Unfortunately, Detrimentum have no middle in their guitar sound at all, so when we came on using the same settings on the mixer but our own amps, it was a massive blast of midrange, ugh. But that couldn't be helped.
R: As I recall we played really well but it just sounded shit out front. We got the "groove" that night.
L: Onstage it sounded really cool, for once.
R: Whereas in Coventry it sounded really good but we didn't play quite as well.
L: You'll see when the DVD comes out ;) It was quite cool anyway.

Signing To Candlelight
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R: How did the signing come about?
L: They emailed us and asked if we wanted to sign, directly. It was seemingly because 'Worlds...' had done so well.
R: They were really positive about it all at the start, and offered to help us sort out any issues with Golden Lake.
L: Fraser had always agreed that he'd just let us go if a much bigger label came along, and he really stuck to his word and didn't cause any problems.
R: Not only did they want us to do new records, but wanted to reissue both the others.
L: So we took the opportunity to "finish" 'Worlds..' off, and slightly tweak it with some really small mastering things
R: There were a couple of things we weren't happy with on the original. Whereas 'Legions...' more or less stayed the same but the layout totally changed.
L: I did actually remaster 'Legions...' too, I brought the vocals and bass out a bit and smoothed the sound out a touch, so both reissues sound "a bit" better than the originals, however it's not major.
R: We'd had other offers from other labels while negotiating with Candlelight, but they'd been really enthusiastic and offered us about the best deal so we just carried on with the negotiations and signed with them in the end.
L: I did negotiate the deal for ages and ages.
R: Contracts went back and forth. We also made it clear to them that we were unlikely to tour at this point. In a way we were surprised that the fact we weren't likely to tour didn't bother them at this stage... little did we suspect!